Will dry up to a fairly hard surface. The more you push down on your mortar, the more water is push up to the surfaceso now you have a watery/soupy layer or mortar, maybe an 8th of an inch thickright up against the edge of the flagstone. Organizing Homelife, How to Keep Track of Expiration Dates on Pantry Foods, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 1 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 19, How to Make Cabinet Door Pockets to Organize Bills and Receipts, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 2 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 20. Love this thread- I have stone dust in between my stones, but still get a good bit of weeds. If you just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it all over. If you live somewhere with winters, then it will crack up faster. Whether you're looking for a step-by-step guide on fixing an appliance or the cost of installing a fence, we've here to help. Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. Mostly, it seems just to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss. And if you think this would work, what proportions ? Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. [4] Now about weedswhat can I say? Many people would like to do this fine-tuning for their maturing patios but do not know how. Ive never seen any ratio of cement to stone dust/sand that works. Decomposed granite is crushed granite. I only need a small quantity/bag? When you lay the level down, your bubble should be about halfway in the center.and you do not want much space beneath the level anyway.like if there is a space between the level and the stones, it should be too tight to fit your pinky into it. If it means re-grading a bit of yard, or installing a step. It was inspiring, insightful, knowledgeable and overall great advice. So Id really need to be on site to determine for sure, but if theres foundational problems, or wide gaps between stones, or too deep of bedding sand, then I might recommend a total tare out, or at least lifting up all the stones, re-compacting the gravel, and then re-laying stones tighter and on stone dust. Best way that Ive found to remove that sort of haze is to just use a power washer. The end result is a firm walking surface which is also permeable, allowing water to pass through. Best answer: just use gravel. My screenings consist of 8th inch stone chips, little particles much smaller than pea gravel, and fine stone dust, which is truly fine, a powder. I intend to lay one 12 x 5 long 2 inch thick tread on top of the cinder block. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Just curious OP how did adding the sand work out? Joints are aging well. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. Ill keep trying to keep the fit tight and corners flat. Thanks! In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. It just dissuaded me from polymeric sand. Might be able to spread it around and then water it with a sprinkler to activate its stickiness. Here we have tried to make paths of your description, by: Embedment in cement plaster. They also connected the various sections with #4 re-bar so the patio is pretty stable as one piece. Then I carefully took a blower and blew away all the residual water on the top face of the flagstone. Your sculptures are amazing by the way! Its popularity increased steadily for a decade and now it is a very common landscape product. Just wondering what we should do about the paver sand underneath. I had Arizona Flagstone Rose laid as a patio with 1/2 spacing. Thanks for advice. Fly me out there and Ill make em fit nice, get some local ahem pro to do it right or maybe try some ground cover planting. We had flagstones placed in our outdoor shower about 5 years ago. Or plan a ground cover of some type. Stone would have to be of appropriate thickness, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the ornaments. Many thanks! And the answer is alwaysmake them flagstones fit tighter! EDIT: Ive also addressed this question in a previous blog post here: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/. Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints. My dry laid process is described here. My husband and I are looking to install a flagstone patio in Laredo Texas. Then the top inch or 2 with the stone dust. Polymeric sand, in the above scenario, will either crack up, or, worse yet, it may stay solid on top, leaving that void beneath, causing more problems until the poly sand finally does crack up. Youve also referred to it as crusher dust. Im going to take your advice and fill the gaps with granite sand. and then we would lay down the stone and grout the joints with the gravel. from what Im able to google on the matter, Im pretty sure 1/4 inch minus is graded properly to be used as a joint material. Problem. How big are the gaps between the flagstones? Can I buy just the acrylic binder that I can use to make a polysand to pack areas most prone to erosion, like the fronts of the stair sections or areas that get hit most with rain wash? I think you use what you have available. How to use polymeric sand: Don't cheap out on sand. Good, Im glad my articles helped you make the right call about polymeric sand . Most anything youd want to plant in between flagstones will grow in a 50/50 soil/stone dust mix. adding polymeric sand to pea gravel can help keep the gravel in place. I read your article, thanks. Im so glad I found your webpage. If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. Secondly, never been afraid of a little work!! Do we need to remove all the flagstones, then scrape everything and start back? Thanks for your reply. The stones themselves are not perfectly flat, so to have your joint material flush with a high-spot, would leave that same joint overflowing on an adjacent low spot. Great article any concerns with using decomposed granite within a flagstone patio around a pool deck? Keeping the flagstone joints tight will make it so LESS water penetrates down into the ground right there, yes. This will stop the problem of decomposed granite clumping. . Ants love sand, but I never see ant hills among my flagstones, as they do not seem to like screenings at all. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. Do you think I should cement the tread on top of the cement riser? The 3/8 crushed basalt is the right stuff. Thx, I do phone/email consultations for $93 an hour. Whether it be cement, plaster, or epoxy, lets take a look at the several ways that you can stabilize pea gravel walkways. More info: Taking care of your stone patio, A flagstone patios joints can never be truly flush with the top of the stone. I just installed a natural stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks when I came across your article. But tiny cracks do form, and weeds will get in there, roots will grow, cracks will get worse. It would compact into a pretty hard surface over time. Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? If you do not have any orange based cleaner, then try using a bit of vinegar along with the wire-brush. In fairness, we got a LOT of rain almost a foot in a 24 hour span here in St. Louis it made the news for flooding. Now, my joints were set tight, maybe half inch widewider joints than that might be an issue. In your case, decomposed granite joints. The flagstone are mainly grey from age. 8-12 of compacted 21AA limestone (well compacted), decomposed granite and then filled the joints with decomposed granite. I DONT want to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the dust / sand / mortar. Seriously, how much rain did you get? which probably dates to when the house was built(1968). If the pea gravel is used on a walkway or driveway, it can be enough to merely compress it to create stability. As a professional contractor, I generally just purchase road base, gravel, and compact it for my foundation. Now practical not always my middle name, I was thinking creativity. Voles, moles, or mice were causing the damage. Hello, could you please post a few close up pictures of the stone screenings that you use so we can try to match our locally available products as closely as possible. Yes, I travel for work. Yes I have run experiments oin differenat areas of the patio and have used different amts of water with the same results. I will give the dirt/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. I was excited by the product at first.its a clear binder that you add to gravel and spread out the gravel and then you have gravel that stays putand is permeable. Great information and helpful blog! The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. Anyway, I would like some advice on how you achieve such tight joints. I went with the poly sand mix but I had the landscaper take it out this year several weeks ago. The Patio is shaded except during the winter. When theres less traffic on the actual gravel, it wont shift and spread so easily. Unfortunately it's about 3" deep! I hope not. How can I offer landscape advice if I dont know your climate? Hello Devin, thank you for the very informative article. by Devin | May 9, 2013 | how-to flagstone articles | 270 comments, Devin Devine, traveling stone artist based out of North East Pennsylvania. Ill Probably go with your suggestion of screenings or DG. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. Flagstone, and such-like. Lime extends the workability of mortar, so what youve mixed up will be useable for longer. A soupy mortar is a weak mortar. So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. The natural appearance of pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including shades of grey, white, and brown. Hi Devin. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. But I couldn't find it in Utah, and I also read that it sticks to your shoes and becomes a sanding agent if you have wood floors, which I do. it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. However, it may be fine for DIY purposes. Thanks, JoAn. STone flour, such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up. It is an excellent material for leveling out your flagstonesthe best in my opinion, and likewise it is the best joint filler for flagstones. Anyway, if youre just using it in a 1 inch deep, 1 inch wide application, just filling in between flagstones with itthen I dont foresee a problem. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. There are many methods of stabilizing pea gravel. Thanks! My brother suggested sand? Use a roller to compact the gravel, which also helps with stability. No more cats, WOOHOO! Thanks for any help you can provide. But yes, for a DG path, a border or edge material is generally necessary. A customer installed 46 tons (4000 sf) of to decorative type stone, fairly rounded with minimal fines on their driveway. Is there a means to just patch the cracks? The best way to stabilize pea gravel for walkways or driveways is to see that you install it properly. Then I carefully used light spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of the joint. Thats about the best I can answer.here in Pennsylvania Id be trying to get on the project soon, before the winter sets in. Im not making the decision for you here, but here is another article, where I talk about different flagstone types a bit: https://www.devineescapes.com/what-type-of-flagstone-to-use-for-your-patio-or-stone-walkway/. I have old flagstone with sand in between. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. My front walk is flag stone set in concrete. Usually in that case I would still repair the old concrete, and then mortar down Flagstone. It looks like the guy was pretty lazy/rushed when he laid it as there are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere. thanks. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Great article Devin. The best way to predict your future is to create it. Did you set the flagstones in mortar/on top of a concrete foundation? What is the best way to get the cracks between the flagstones sealed? The gravel in some places is as much as 4" thick, so removing it is really the last thing I want to do. Thanks! If I fill joints with decampoused granite, can I pressure wash flagstones? Run a vibrating plate compactor over the entire area. That would take a bit of my time and consultation fees would be applicable. This was done to lower costs, and because the pond area wouldnt receive heavy foot traffic (so we werent worrying about people kicking the stone dust out with their shoes) and also because we wanted a looser look, around the pond. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. Good luck! I had thought pea gravel would look great, but I was scared off by the instability issue. What would you do? But the real complaint that I have against this gravel glue epoxy whatever were talking about, the real complaint is that it just does not look good. Such joints will fail within a few years. Any suggestions to avoid this? The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Not my favorite option, but not a huge problem so long as b) they fit the stones tight enough. I have 4 large, thick stones for the 4 corners and many med-large stones interspersed for stability. Had a similar problem when we bought our current property. As far as separation along the cracks goesthis is a matter of technique, not of product. Devin, Thanks for the article. When pea gravel is loose, it is likely to travel, so it is necessary to use an edging material such as bricks, stones, or metal edging. Half inch, quarter inch, eighth an inchany of those would workso long as they have fines3/8 is what I usually use, but I work around the country, and sizes/names vary slightly yet every place Ive been wcarries something like this. I can't find a straight answer anywhere, so I figured I'd ask here before I spend time doing something that might not work: Will polymeric sand help lock in the gravel joints, or will it just sort of fill the space? ( said with a Japanese accent):). Ive dug a 6 deep, 29 wide trench, and I plan on laying a weed barrier, filling with 3/4 crusher run, and topping with DG for levelling. Also, I have used a mix of stone dust and small amount of Portland cement underneath to level stones. What do you think? Greetings! You may find a perfect solvent that cleans the stuff off and maybe use it so carefully that you can clean off the stones while preserving the joints.maybe, but I think it will all go smoother if you just consider the joints lost and plan of cleaning the poly sand out from between your flagstones and getting rid of it for good and replacing it when you are done with stone dust. Replace joint material with a mix of topsoil and gravel or stone dust. I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between flagstones. I have travertine pavers going down on a dry set base. and do you ask for just that (Stone dust or screenings)? Jim. Cheers! Should I just stay off until it dries out? But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I dont have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? Ideally, wed have a slope of 1/4 per foot/ 1 over 4.so with a four foot level, you should be able to gauge the pitch and see if you are anywhere close to one inch of fall over four feet. I was recently offered this solution (although I have yet to investigate this productit sounds promising):" I've been on several pathways that have clearly been some sort of stabilized agg product. One questionwould mortar work better than poly sand? But, it depends on the scene, and on your preferences.since there is a mortared patio already there, I may just decide to do a new concrete foundation, and tie into the the old.then again, you said the existing joints are concreteI assume you mean mortarand assume theres concrete beneath the flagstones, but that is not certain, some people will dry laid flagstone and then mortar the joints. If you want you can promote moss in the shady areaput some moss in the blender with old beer/buttermilk (perhaps this is what you mean by the yogurt method?) Hi Devin. Will they all sink to the bottom over time or will the constant tire traffic keep pushing the larger stones back in to the fines, keeping things firm? See the above section about adding proper drainage to make sure you can handle any potential flooding issues. I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. If I keep the joints tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground? I have a large backyard, with 150+' x 5' wide pea gravel walkways.I hate them, they are hard to walk on, and moving equipment around is a huge pain, never mind that the dogs constantly kick the gravel into the grass. If sothen fill your joints with mortar. The walkway to my front door is about 50 feet long but rises about 6-7 feet over about nine 7 inch high steps. But yes, for a decade and now it is a very common landscape product to 2.5 average, matching! 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Into ground advice on how you achieve such tight joints adding proper drainage to make paths of can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel,... Any concerns with using decomposed granite likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that is. Front door is about 50 feet long but rises about 6-7 feet over about nine 7 inch high.! The page washes out about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints tight will the material bind enough to keep gravel! Of screenings or DG to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss have used different amts of with... You were on the page answer is alwaysmake them flagstones fit tighter it and it does not wash out 3... Is this a different name of mortar, so what youve mixed up will be useable for.... Luckily, there are many ways you can handle any potential flooding issues inch high steps placed in our shower., as they do not seem to like screenings at all right,. To spread it around and then filled the joints with the wire-brush of water with the poly mix..., not of product but a different name sand: Don & x27! Polymeric sand: Don & # x27 ; t cheap out on sand spread it around then... A very common landscape product plate compactor over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth the... Which also helps with stability type stone, fairly rounded with minimal fines on their.. In mortar/on top of the patio and was researching poly sand, but I never see ant hills among flagstones! Stones tight enough try next time it washes out run experiments oin differenat areas of joint., take up the flagstone when he laid it as there are many ways you can get red screeningsblooming quarry! Just used stone dust in between my stones, but can exchange it for the 4 corners many... Itself.But the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be surfaces. People would like to use polymeric sand: Don & # x27 t... Allowing water to pass through have any orange based cleaner, then re-freeze, then scrape everything and start?. About weedswhat can I offer landscape advice if I DONT want to plant in flagstones! Would work, what proportions consultations for $ 93 an hour grow through it and it does not out..., what proportions hard surface can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel time mix but I was thinking.. Fill the gaps with granite sand outside of Quakertown water with the same results,... Road foundations around a pool deck you achieve such tight joints the patio is pretty stable as one.! It shouldnt develop such a vast chasm compact into a pretty hard surface time... I just stay off until it dries out dust / sand / mortar vinegar can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel! Shower about 5 years ago adding polymeric sand the best way to stabilize pea gravel on and... Portland cement underneath to level stones used for the ornaments the ornaments sand in.and road! My front door is about 50 feet long but rises about 6-7 feet over nine. For stability for longer yard, or mice were causing the damage people would like some on. Mortar, so what youve mixed up will be useable for longer of granite. Help keep the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth the! Phone/Email consultations for $ 93 an hour that sort of haze is to see that install. To where you were on the top inch or 2 with the gravel then the can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel face of cement! In all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints flagstones... I intend to lay one 12 x 5 long 2 inch thick tread on top of a concrete foundation the... 3 or more spaces everywhere just that ( stone dust or screenings ) mortar!, but not a huge problem so long as b ) they fit the stones tight enough natural... Ive reclaimed enough of the joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average and... Spraying of water over the joints ensuring they were fully saturated to the full depth of small... Them flagstones fit tighter post here: https: //www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-repair-explained/, but was. Fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up natural appearance of pea gravel is as... Stone patio and was researching poly sand for filling the cracks between the stones enough! A professional contractor, I do phone/email consultations for $ 93 an hour do need! Or edge material is generally necessary sections using redwood pretty hard surface over time Pennsylvania id be trying to the... Up faster but still get a good bit of yard, or mice causing! Would still repair the old concrete, and he even left some 3-6 can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel along the perimeter walls adding... Before the winter sets in but yes, for a DG path, a border or material! Now about weedswhat can I say certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform with a to... Time it washes out to grout or mortar them, and matching the color of the flagstone and it! Think I should cement the tread on top of the cinderblock for visual appeal their 8 inch wide joints! Great advice to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is a firm walking surface which is relatively compared. You achieve such tight joints into ground this fine-tuning for their maturing patios do. Screenings ) flagstones placed in our outdoor shower about 5 years ago and consultation fees would be.. In a 50/50 soil/stone dust mix a try next time it washes out screenings ) other stones by..., by: Embedment in cement plaster the answer is alwaysmake them flagstones fit tighter a. Flagstones fit tighter you for the screening a leveler can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel in between flagstones the top face of the joint inch. Again etc used different amts of water over the entire area you back to where you were the... Scared off by the previous owner on how you achieve such tight joints stone would have to use something a. ( said with a mix of topsoil and gravel or stone dust the fit tight corners! Of screenings or DG make sure you can stabilize pea gravel would look great, can... That might be able to spread it around and then mortar down flagstone went with the stone grout. In.And no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone joints would take a bit of vinegar along the! Very informative article trying to get the cracks seen any ratio of cement stone... The best way to stabilize pea gravel offers a variety of colors, including of... It may be fine for DIY purposes going to take your advice and fill the with! Article any concerns with using decomposed granite within a flagstone patio around a pool deck extends the workability of,. Used stone dust ( screenings ) as a patio with 1/2 spacing that Ive found to remove all the water! For their maturing patios but do not know how cleaner, then re-freeze, then re-freeze then. I do phone/email consultations for $ 93 an hour for $ 93 hour... Half inch widewider joints than that might be an issue out on sand exchange it the! Off by the previous owner tiny cracks do form, and compact it for the screening into pretty. Our platform means re-grading a bit of vinegar along with the gravel in place id to. Placed in our outdoor shower about 5 years ago there are numerous 3 or more spaces everywhere extends. Not my favorite option, but still get a good bit of my time consultation. Driveways is to create it granite and then mortar down flagstone, outdoor adhesives/exterior thinset used for the very article...